« May 2007: Untold Hassles setting up servers with Hostgator »
May update: Setting up a dedicated server with hostGator - or not
NOTE:
Please note that despite all the aggravation I felt getting my server how I anted it, it all worked out well in the end and I am very happy with my dedicated server with hostgator!
I'll re-arrange this to read better in a day or so.
HostGator Sales wrote:
Hello,
Thank You for your recent purchase with us.
In order for us to continue with the account setup, please attach scanned copies (front and back) of the credit card on file and a government ID in reply to this e-mail.
For security, you're welcome to mask off the first 12 digits of the credit card leaving only the name and the last 4 numbers.
If paying by paypal, please submit a utility bill showing the billing address on file in your name instead of the credit card on file.
We sincerely appreciate your cooperation here, and look forward to working with you.
Regards, Tim
HostGator.com
Dear Sales,
Aaaaarrrgghhhh!
You lot are just taking the () now!!!
No other ISP I have ever been with has required me to jump through hopes like this.
eBay doesn't ask for this ().
PAYPAL DON'T ASK FOR THIS ()!
Either accept I am who I am am set up the server or refund my payment IMMEDIATELY.
Just don't get me started, I don't need this () in my life - it is beyond ridiculous.
I don't have a scanner and even if I did I would not scan my utility bills for you or anybody else. OK, opening a bank account I can understand, but for web hosting where you are billed monthly - ()!
Just image if every eCommerce site said:
"Thank you for your order, we have you credit card details and have taken your money, now please send us scans of your drivers licence, passport and a currently utility bill so we can verify who you are and release the goods you have paid for in good faith."
Right - eCommerce would go the way of the dodo about 30 seconds later.
I am, by admission, paranoid about iD fraud and your country is infamous for being liberal with other peoples data, it is just NOT going to happen!
Rant ends. Your choice. Set up the ruddy server or give me my money back and I'll just order another server with GoDaddy. I've been with them for years - still have a server with them actually - and they don't demand such unreasonable proof.
I want that server live by 4pm GMT (about 10am your time) OR confirmation by PayPal (who at least trust me) that you have refunded my money.
I repeat:
Either accept I am who I am am set up the server or refund my payment IMMEDIATELY.
Yours in absolute and utter disgust and exasperation,
~ Paul
HostGator Sales (sales@hostgator.com) wrote:
Hello,
Thank you for your order with HostGator.com!
Please respond to this ticket with a scanned copy of a Photo ID such as as a passport, or drivers license. Also please include a scanned copy of the credit card that was used in purchase, if you purchased a hosting account with a credit card. Please do so at your earliest convenience to ensure that your account with HostGator is setup as soon as possible.
Toll-free: 1-866-96-GATOR
International: 001-713-574-5287
We are available 24/7, so please feel free to call us at your convenience. We apologize for any inconveniences. Please don't hesitate to contact us if you have any questions, comments, or concerns.
Sincerely,
Chad B.
HostGator.com
Hi Chad,
As I just told your friend Tim - in no uncertain terms -
I have absolutely no intention of running around like an idiot because of your stupid conditions. You lot are seriously getting on my nerves!
I got up this morning looking forward to a day setting up and moving web sites, instead I get your emails ruining my day.
I ordered a reseller server - missing this little gem:
"We allow you to use the OpenSSH Protocol (using Jailed Shell) on all of our Shared and Reseller servers to make it easier to develop and debug your files with such text editors as vim and nano. To request OpenSSH access, please E-Mail support with a copy of your photo ID. (No Daemons or Background processes allowed.)"
However, in the same relative information box, your dedicated says:
"We will give you root control of the box."
It does not say - provided you bend over and let us…
(And yes, I skimmed over this in the Hostgator Terms of Service*:
"In dedicated server purchases or high risk transactions, it will be necessary to provide government issued identification and possibly a scan of the credit card used for the purchase. If you fail to meet these requirements, the order may be considered fraudulent in nature and be denied."
*[ They are like EULA's with software, after the first one or two, who really reads through all the legal kak! Maybe we should, I guess! ]
Might I also remind you that that is a ridiculous, American-centric policy for a global country. Hate you remind you guys, but not all countries issues government id cards, hmmm!
Take a good look at my home site - www.ackadia.com
See, my name at the bottom?
See the fact that it's been going since 1998?
See the fact it has a Google Rank of 6 so obviously have need around a bit?
In all those years, with Pipex, with FastHosts, with GoDaddy, with other hosts (I still have 3 servers with various ISP)'s I have NEVER, EVER had so much grief and hassle in so short a time.
We apologize for any inconveniences.
Ah, right, it is just an 'inconvenience' that makes everything hunky dory?
Please don't hesitate to contact us if you have any questions, comments, or concerns.
Ah, right, since you asked…
Questions:
Been though all this with you lot before trying to get SHH for the reseller - you will not give me a straight answer my questions.
Comments:
OK, you have my PayPal details - you have taken money with absolutely no problem - twice no less. But you - unlike ever other ISP I've dealt with - won't allow root access unless I provide details scans of my personal identity. (See question). You blanked every single question I've asked regarding this 'policy' - but you want me to trust you with it.
Concerns:
Take a good, hard look at your own website. They are several issues with navigation and usability. And all the spelling errors . Doesn't exactly inspire confidence - (though I am told by someone I trust you are very good at keeping servers running) - and without confidence there is doubt over trust - but you want users data and you you want us to trust you with it. Well, that seems fair.
Going back to your ToS.
For a start, as far as I can tell, this isn't a government or state law, it is just you covering your own backs. Anyway:
If you fail to meet these requirements, the order may be considered fraudulent in nature and be denied.
You see, right there, your own caveat: it may be…
So, it's not even a law, at the end of the day it is a judgement call, hmmm!
Anyway, sick of all this. Either accept me as I am and set up the server, of refund my PayPal account and I'll order another server with GoDaddy.
No really, my bad for not scrutenising your terms but still, fed up with this now, then some!
Set it up, or refund my PayPal. Really, you lot have ruined my week!
~ Paul
p.s. This isn't be having a go at you, nor Tim personally, but at the inane bureaucracy of your company. Cannot be doing with it!
May 9th 2007 : Set up a reseller hosting account with Hostgator…
I did have a few misgiving given the large number of spelling mistakes liberally spread across Hostgator but the first impressions are great, it was live in an hour!
I did have a few false starts as I got used to the foibles of cPanel and WHM but suitably impressed after a play. I still don't like (and never will like) the idea of putting domains as directories under the main public_html of your account and redirecting, it's unbelievably untidy and sloppy to my way of thinking. On the plus side, setting up email account for domains was so easy I could almost cry. Then there's Fantastico, which I've never used before. One click and you're away. Amazing! So very easy.
Having got the server running with a few token domains and installed a formum and CMS the first thing you naturally want to do is start to customise everything with new themes, patches, modules…
Then the fun starts. I couldn't log into the shell. Wasn't my end, ftp was fine, sites were live, so I searched their knowledge base and talked to their live support to see I'd missed this interesting gem:
Do you offer Telnet or SSH access?
Solution
Yes, we offer SSH access. In order to get SSH access you must email support@hostgator.com with your request. Along with your request, you must include either a driver's license or a government issued identification card. Without this, you will be out rightly denied SSH access.
Only applies to reseller servers, not dedicated and is essentially a (flawed) security measure. Depending on your viewpoint you will find the following cruel, pedantic, anal or deeply amusing; perhaps all of the adjectives, but however you look at it my sarcastic and cynical messages to their support team should make interesting reading. Whatever comes, kudos to them for tolerance!
17:18
Hi,
Can you please set up SSH access for my reseller account ~
[ ackadia ip: () ]
I did read your knowledge base ( on SSH ) and have a quick chat to support and it seems you might need photographic id?
If necessary I can take a photograph of my passport /drivers license though the later doesn't include a picture (they just don't). Gov't id card we just don't have either.
Primarily need it for extracting and installing mods etc (ie phpBB 3, themes for Drupal etc), though I may also set up a circle based MUD
Anyway, if you could set it up, or let me know what you need I'd appreciate it.
~ Paul
17:20
(Note the really fast reply to the ticket - just 2 minutes)
Hello,
In order for us to setup your account with Jailed SSH, we will need you to verify your account with a scanned copy of a Photo ID such as as a passport, or drivers license.
Also, please be advised that Jailed SSH is intended for experienced users that are familiar with a command line interface. Users should not request this service simply because we offer it. If you have any questions about this, please ask.
If you have questions or concerns please contact us.
Regards,
Charles
Users should not request this service simply because we offer it.
Errr, why would folk ask for it simply because it was there and, moreso, why mention it to me when it should be clear from my first email that, you know, maybe I do have a clue!
For those currently baffled, Secure Shell, or SSH in abbreviation, is essentially for remote access too and control of servers. Jailed SSH is basically a script used on shared servers and designed to keep resellers and users securely "locked" within their own account - without the ability to wander to others - nor having others wander into your account. Jailed SSH is a way of restricting users to a defined set of folders and executables, making the server as a whole more secure this way.
Way beyond my meager and rusty Unix skills, but like all jails, you can break out. I can point you to sources but that would be irresponsible, hmmm!
21:37
Hi Charles,
Can't find my current passport anywhere, though I've a few old one's… My driver's license is up to date - but they don't put photographs on licenses, or rather they didn't when mine was issued in the early 90's 
Also, rather lacking a scanner, though I can take a close up picture of it with my Nikon.
I'd appreciate it if you could also explain why you need Photo ID to allow access the command prompt as both my American and Australian counterparts are also equally baffled, especially given this is not a requirement for your dedicated servers! Surely the fact you are taking the money from a validated bank account is verification in itself…
Anyway, I'll keep looking for my current password, but let me know if my drivers license is adequate.
~ Paul
21:43
Another fast reply, if blunt.
Hi,
That is our company policy. We cannot enable SSL access without proper photo ID.
Nat V.
22:46
Hi,
Still can't find my password but I've found a UK web site that will sell me
up to 48 fake Id's that prove I am who I say I am 
[ www.fake-student-ids.co.uk/fake-identity-hologram.asp ]
Yours sarcastically,
~ Paul
23:18
Commendable refrain in the face of my barbed comments!
Hello,
As previously stated, in order to have SSH access enabled you will need to provide a government issued photo id.
Sincerely,
Basil H.
12:30 (getting late here)
Hi,
Now, it's my fault I've lost my passport, yep and beyond doubt I'll need to find the ruddy thing, but I feel I must draw your attention to this:
Quote:
Along with your request, you must include either a driver's license or a government issued identification card. Without this, you will be out rightly denied SSH access.
Right, first off, UK drivers licenses don't include a photo. New ones may but most don't and mine isn't due for renewal until 2035! Feel free to get the number for the DVLA in Swansea and ask them. Secondly, here in the UK, there are no government issued Id cards. We just don't have them (beyond a few trials). The nearest thing is student type passes to get them into pubs and I'm way to old for them, but proof of identity cards, nope. Doesn't exist in England and, presumely numerous other countries that aren't America! Google it, you know I'm right.
Also, rather paranoid about identity theft especially for passport scans, especially given the USA's notoriously poor record and attitude to peoples personal records, but there you go.
Finally, which you still haven't answered, what possible difference does Photo Id (easily faked anyway) have to SSH when your customers live on the other side of the planet!? Really, I just don't get it!
Hey boss, the guy has a valid EU drivers licenses, he must be a trustworthy Linux guru, let's give him shell access
Honestly, explain the logic of that to me, because I genuinely don't get it! You either have confidence in your own chroot jail kits and allow access (as does GoDaddy and many, many others) or you have no confidence in which case you allow no-one access, which of course draws question to your own capabilities as a hosting provider.
Paranoia aside, I don't have an issue with imaging my passport when I dig it out, but a blank statement that 'it is policy' just makes me antsy. From my point of view, you have an illogical rule that says you will allow shell access in return accept a scanned document - on trust as it is utterly impossible for you to validate id's for all your global customers. Anyone intent on mischief will almost certainly give fake id; conversely, giving you a valid Texas drivers license won't stop a person from entering rm *.* and having to ask for their account to be re-provisioned.
About now you are probably thinking, Dude, you don't have to host with us, no-one's making you!
Don't get me wrong, (all the spelling mistakes on your website aside) I'm actually quite impressed with you so far and I'm still umm'ing and arr'ing about ordering one of your standard dedicated systems, but really, this policy that a photo makes it right just makes me twitch! Why rightly denied SSH access
?
Regards
~ Paul
12:57
Elevated to tier 2 support, and meeting me half way, as good a recommendation for the company as anything else, I'd say.
Hello,
What we can do is this: Take a picture of yourself holding up your UK issued ID and send it to us an attachment. Once we have that then we can look at it and will let you know if we can enable Jailed SSH or not. If you have any further issues please feel free to contact us. Thank you!
Best Regards,
Cliff W.
01:48
(What? I was typing!)
Hi Cliff,
Sidled past my questions but compromises work. :)
Cheers
~ Paul
Never did get a straight answer out of them, maybe they don't even know the reason for this - beaurocracy and politics, I'll bet! Still, they showed remarkable tolerance, I think. Good for them!
Muttering about GoDaddy
Having wasted two days trying to install Gallery and phpBB on the servers…
Running ./configure on GD:
** Configuration summary for gd 2.0.34:
Support for PNG library: no
Support for JPEG library: no
Support for Freetype 2.x library: no
Support for Fontconfig library: no
Support for Xpm library: no
Support for pthreads: yes
You get the similar hassles with ImageMagick…
rpm -ivh ImageMagick-6.3.3-10.i386.rpm
error: Failed dependencies:
libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.so.0 is needed by ImageMagick-6.3.3-10.i386
libpng12.so.0(PNG12_0) is needed by ImageMagick-6.3.3-10.i386
librsvg-2.so.2 is needed by ImageMagick-6.3.3-10.i386
rtld(GNU_HASH) is needed by ImageMagick-6.3.3-10.i386
I'm no guru at Unix, so going through the RPM repository over and over again to find the right package for missing libraries, then getting the installs for those to work, which need…
True, I could just order another server built with the correct libraries from GoDaddy but I hate the feeling I'm getting a really raw deal as I'm only doing it because they didn't do a decent install in the first place. Anyway, cutting my losses and looking at VPS and dedicated servers with a few other places. Should have it up in a day or two.
[ Reply to survey asking why I cancelled my servers with GoDaddy ]
You () didn't install any of the graphics libraries necessary for use with the likes of ImageMagick, Capcha or GD, as used by Gallery, phpBB etc and I simply don't have the patience to keep trying installing .rpm's until I find the root one it actually wants. Also, which REALLY rubs it in, your web site specifically states (GoDaddy on ImageMagick ) All of our Linux hosting plans include ImageMagick.
. This, being kind, is a mistake - it seems you only add it IF people have the Plesk control panel installed - and no, I'm not ordering yet another () server to see if this is the case! This issue applies to both the VPS and Dedicated (RedHat ES) builts. Shame really as, uptime wise you are great. Actually, rather disgusted, to be honest, having wasted $130 dollars upgrading to a new server to find it lacks the basics…
I did try sorting it out with support first, phoning the States to go though it, but after half an hour I gave up and asked the poor technician in first-line support to pass on my disgust to his management.
Actually, despite being suitably irked, to say the least, while I have obvious issues, I still think GoDaddy are a great company. Don't pass on giving them a try just because I'm grumpy and ontolerant in my old age!
May 1st, ish: Where we are at:
Just trying to get my act back together after a really bad year or so. Normal service and daily updates should resume shortly!
Actually, the past decade has been dreadful as these things go, but I'm maybe dealing better now…
I faced down being terminally ill - turned out it was a lesser disease, but one I'll never recover as it's progressively degenerative. Then I nearly got killed in a road accident but, I believe, the car swerved slightly at the last instant, clipping me and almost killing my son. We get over that, for the most part, then I find I have kidney failure. That and other stuff that's…
Eventually you reach the point where you are thinking, enough already, kill me, or begger off and let me get off with life! Well, hopefully, that's about where I'm at now. Getting on with it.
Well, thanks a bunch GoDaddy and, especially, Plesk!
Ordered my dedicated server from GoDaddy, sans a control panel as the default one is basic at best and for some reason that seems to baffle everyone I ask at the hosting company, they cannot install Plesk on RedHat ES servers, only on the RedHat Fedora / CentOS 4. As the Enterprise Server is more secure I naturally ordered that with the intention of ordering Plesk separately, at a premium too, lacking the bulk discounts
So, of I trundle to Plesk, walk though the online ordering system and duly get a message saying I can have it (eventually):
You will receive information within 2 business days.
Didn't need to read that, you know! As it happens, they sent a temporary key a few minutes later, with instruction to set up the leasing for a more permanent solution. And this is where the fun starts:
Lease Renewal Authorization Form
This form is required for lease purchases in order to facilitate automatic lease renewals. If there are any questions or problems with the ability to provide this information please contact us immediately using this form: [link]. Lease renewals will not be able to be performed without providing this information.
If your credit card isn't on their form (i.e. Solo, Switch, Maestro, PayPal etc) then, despite already having taken the money, you can't submit the thing and you can't have the software you just paid for.
I'm sure it will be sorted out, one way of another, but I fired off a message to the support team requesting action, er, now!
Hi,
Feeling a bit p'd about now...
It seems that while you are happy to take PayPal payments for orders, you won't actually let people have them unless they hand over a credit card. Bit of a bugger is this as I don't have one, hence paying by PayPal!
[ Lease renewals will not be able to be performed without providing this information. ]
Actually I'm a lot miffed as I specifically ordered a dedicated server without a control panel so I could install Plesk. (For some reason no-one can answer GoDaddy can't/won't install it on RedHat ES, only on Fedora builds) And now it seems I can't install Plesk because you (unlike GoDaddy etc) don't appear to support renewing leases via PayPal.
What's really p'ing me off is it only costs $25 a month - with SpamAssassin and the application pack from GoDaddy (renewed monthly) whereas you want $30 for the basic 30 domain license. $5 is neither here nor there, but cancelling a server ($135 down the pan) and ordering another server (wasting days) - now that irks!
Please either sort this out - or cancel this order immediately and refund the $35.24 you took from my account.
No, really, it makes you look like a bunch of amateurs and I have neither the time, patience nor tolerance for unnecessary hassle like this!
~ Paul
Ça sera sera!
They actually responded within the hour, pointing out politely the terms of the lease.
I naturally replied to point out that said terms state:
All lease fees for purchases made through online store will be billed to the credit card used for initial order or credit card on file.
As they did offer a refund, as requested, that's what I've taken. Cannot be doing with hassle like this!
